Grammar Lesson 4: Future Subjunctive, Soda Refills at Restaurants
When you go, you will buy a soda. If you buy a soda, you will get refills. As soon as you get refills, you will sit down with friends to talk. Those who sit and talk with friends, will have a great time.
Yes, all of those sentences require the “future subjunctive” in Portuguese. So, if you listen to Orlando, Valdo, Michelle, and José Luís, you will also learn how to use the future subjunctive. Don’t be intimidated, Spanish speaking friends, it’s easier than you think!
PODCAST LINK: Grammar Lesson 4
Achei seu site recentemente e estou adorando! Para quem estiver interessado no português do Brasil, o site é um recurso inédito. There isn’t anything else like it, that I’ve found, available online to the general public. I’ve learned Portuguese without ever having studied Spanish, so your site has been encouraging me to “cross over,” as it were.
The lesson on the future subjunctive was very helpful. One instance from the dialog seemed a little trickier than the standard “se” or “quando” subordinate clauses, however–namely, when Valdo says that he’s going to drink “o quanto eu puder . . . o quanto quiser.” Also, was I correct in using the future subjunctive above, “para quem estiver”?
In the future, it would be great to have a lesson on the personal infinitive, too! I know that I often get it confused with the future subjunctive.
Muito obrigado por oferecerem este serviço maravilhoso!
Comment by Tim Thompson — May 25, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Hi there!
This lesson is a difficult one. I have some comments about this tense. Valdo says that in Spanish only use present for that kind of situations, but I disagree. We have a tense called “Imperfecto de Subjuntivo” that we use in this kind of situations (we use it in Spanish Spanish) For example:
“com esse sistema de refill a gente pode beber o quanto quiser.”
“con ese sistema de refill podemos beber cuanto queramos”
Truth is, that we also use Present Subjunctive tense, instead of Present Infinitive in other cases:
“Eh, mas quando nós chegarmos lá fique atento com os copos…”
“Eh, pero cuando lleguemos ten cuidado con los vasos…”
I can’t really make a rule out of this, but tenses change depending on the context. Jose Luis, don’t you agree with me?
Another question, when you say:
“se a gente for jantar hoje à noite eu só vou tomar água.”
Does it refers to the fact of having dinner out in a restaurant? Or is it having dinner in general (even though we have it at home)? I say this because if you say: “Si cenamos esta noche” I understand that you don’t know wether you’re going to be able to eat tonight or not (for many reasons, you are poor and you don’t have money, or else you don’t find a restaurant where to eat). I find it a bit confusing. So I would say “Si comemos fuera esta noche, yo sólo voy a tomar agua” or more natural to my ears “Si vamos a cenar esta noche a algun sitio , yo sólo voy a tomar agua”. I think that “for” in “for jantar” is the key: is it for the verb “ser” or for the verb “ir”?
Kind regards,
Ángel
Comment by Angel — May 26, 2007 @ 8:21 am
Tim, we’ve got a lesson on the personalized infinitive coming soon!
Angel, agreed, the subjunctive in Spanish is more like you described, especially with the word ‘cuando’ and ’si’. Not to speak for Valdo, but I believe what he was trying to get at is simply that the word ‘if’ triggers future subjunctive in Portuguese. I know when I hear Spanish it always jolts me a bit to hear ’si’ without any subjuntive.
Second, yes ‘for’ in ’se for jantar’ is from the verb ‘ir’ and matches your ‘Si vamos a cenar…’ And Brazilians, just like you mentioned for Spanish, use the verb ‘ir’ in front of infinitives a lot.
So, ‘Se PUDER, eu vou responder todas as perguntas!’
Orlando
Comment by orkelm — May 26, 2007 @ 8:39 am
I really liked the Confucius analogy. Thanks. There seem to be three types that I could think of…
He who (does something), will be he who…
However much he will (have/want/know/etc.), he is…
Whatever he will (think/decide/want/etc.), he will…
Comment by Erik — May 26, 2007 @ 11:21 am
It’s clearly not a technical way to describe future subjunctive, but the ‘Confucius say’ works for me!
Orlando
Comment by orkelm — May 26, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
Many thanks folks, I finally got it ! I my Portuguese lessons I really got confused a few weeks ago when we learnt future subjunctive. I basically came from Spanish to Portuguese, so , I didnt had a clue about Future Subjunctive, what’s that ??? So, I started to ask my friends in Latinamerica and Spain with the result that most of them hadnt heard of future subjunctive either. However, it seems there is this tense in Spanish as well, although nobody uses it anymore ! Actually someone told me it would really sound posh/ intellectual if one started to use future subjunctive in Spanish…
Anyway, I really really would like to thank you for all your efforts in doing this podcast, its absolutely great and I already presented it to my Portuguese classmates… and the way to present it trilingual helps me imporving my Portuguese, Spanish and English… !!
thanks
Romy
Comment by romy — May 28, 2007 @ 11:28 am
Romy,
Yes, speaking Spanish with a future subjuntive (sea lo que fuere) would be like speaking English from Shakespeare’s time. You know, ‘What ere thou art, act well thy part.’
Comment by orkelm — May 29, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
A question on the lesson on the future subjunctive. I think that in spanish you have conjugaciones verbales como:
Si Dios quisiera SP
o si Dios quisiese SP
Se Deus quiser BZ
I guess there are a couple of futere-tense in Spanish that may fit fine.
Take this into acount, and please clarify what are the differences on those perfect and imperfect futere tenses.
Kind Regards
Marcel
Comment by Marcel — May 29, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Mignon (from a direct email asks): I did not understand why we were using the future subjunctive in certain cases instead of the imperfect subjunctive. Someone stated that with words like “si” and “quando” one shoud use the future subjunctive, but this is also the case with the imperfect subjunctive. What is the difference in usage of the two.
So, here’s a brief answer for Mignon and everyone else.
1. Start with the classice ‘contrary to fact’ statement:
I would eat if I had money. (Eu comeria se tivesse dinheiro.)
Note: Contrary to fact statements have two clauses,
- One with the word ‘would’ and the conditional
- One with the word ‘if’ and the imperfect subjective
2. When you change the contrary to fact statement from ‘would’ to ‘will’ you should also change the imperfect subjunctive to future subjunctive:
I will eat if I have money (Eu vou comer se tiver dinheiro.)
Here are a few more examples:
I would study if I had time. (Eu estudaria se tivesse tempo.)
I will study if I have time. (Eu vou estudar se tiver tempo.)
I would travel if I could. (Eu viajaria se pudessse.)
I will travel if I can. (Eu vou viajar se puder.)
I would talk to Mary if she spoke Spanish. (Eu falaria com Maria se ela falasse espanhol.)
I will talk to Mary if she speaks Spanish. (Eu vou falar com Maria se ela falar espanhol.)
3. ‘When’ works just like ‘if’
Eu vou estudar quando eu tiver tempo.
Eu vou viajar quando eu puder
Eu vou falar com Maria quando ela falar espanhol.
Hope that helps.
Orlando
Comment by orkelm — May 29, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
I’m going to say this is your best lesson yet. Also, the translation of wherever, whenever, whoever, and whatever require the use of the Future Subjunctive:
You can love whoever you wish (quiseres: future subjunctive).
By the way, I’m working on a “wikibook” page for the Portuguese conjugations — just a place to centralize my notes as I learn. Changes are welcome (just create an account and edit it): http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Portuguese:Variation_of_the_Portuguese_Verbs
Comment by Jason Weden — May 29, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
Apropos the sequence of tenses, I still get hung up sometimes on the use of “se” and “quando” in non-subjunctive constructions. For example: “Se você come muito, é porque você está com fome.” In this case, because the main clause is in the simple present, the “se” clause is also simple present tense, right? And in this case, the sentence would mean that you really DO eat a lot. It’s not a “contrary to fact” statement, right?
Any further clarification is appreciated!
Comment by Tim Thompson — May 30, 2007 @ 10:03 am
Nobody can say it better than Tim just did. If the action is habitual, repeated, and normal behavior, then ’se’ can be used with the simple present tense because it is not ‘contrary to fact’. Your example is perfect!
Orlando
Comment by orkelm — May 30, 2007 @ 10:35 am
For me having learned Spanish first I had some trouble distinguishing and understanding the furtue subjuctive with the personal infinive, but after a while it just becomes natural.
Both the future subjuctive and the personal infinitive are things that I don’t think exist in Spanish anymore.
When I was learning Portuguese I had a lot of trouble with the word refill. For example refill a cup of soda or a prescription.
The word used in the dialogs “refil” is found in the Portuguese dictionary but I believe this is an anglicism.
What would be some alternate choices for refill in both Portuguese and Spanish ?
Sincerely,
John Donnarumma Jr
Revere, Ma USA
Comment by John Donnarumma Jr — June 22, 2007 @ 1:22 am
”Yes, speaking Spanish with a future subjuntive (sea lo que fuere) would be like speaking English from Shakespeare’s time. ”
This is not true since FUTURE SUBJUNCTIVE is still used in legalese (any Spanish lawyer uses it on the daily basis).
Comment by Milton — August 2, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
”For me having learned Spanish first I had some trouble distinguishing and understanding the furtue subjuctive with the personal infinive, but after a while it just becomes natural.”
Well, you can can’t use ênclises with the future subjunctive, but you can
with use it with the personal infinitive:
”if you look for her”
Se você a procurar.. and not
Se você procurá-la*…
(in speech Brazilians say SE VOCÊ PROCURAR ELA, so some would write it
automatically se você procurá-la, but this is a mistake and a negative point
in the ”vestibular”)
until you look for her
”até você procurá-la” or
”ate você a procurar”
(both are correct here, ênclise e próclise)
so, in SE VOCÊ A PROCURAR you have the future subjunctive and in
ATÉ VOCÊ A PROCURAR you have the personal infinitive. ATE VOCÊ PROCURÁ-LA
is prefectly fine, but SE VOCÊ PROCURÁ-LA is not (just like SE VOCÊ VI-LA is not…but SE VOCÊ A VIR is…in speech ”até você procurar ela, se você ver ela, até você ver ela” no difference… many people use personal infinitive instead of future subjunctive: QUANDO O SOL SE PÔR instead of QUANDO O SOL SE PUSER; QUANDO A GENTE VER ELA instead of Quando a virmos…)
Comment by Milton — August 2, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
é facil aprender estas regras mais para mim e dificil usar o futuro subjuntivo na fala. Os nativos usam este tempo com freqüência na fala do dia a dia?
Comment by cynthiaz — September 13, 2007 @ 11:00 am
This was (is) still difficult for me coming from Spanish. It is getting clearer each time. Is the best way just to memorize the words (se, quando, assim que, etc.) that trigger the use of the future subjunctive?
Comment by Monica Mitre — September 13, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Esta leção me fiz ver que preciso practicar os tempos verbais! Vou practicar o futuro subjuntivo o mais possível este fim de semana.
Comment by Kellsey K — September 13, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Enquanto o futuro do subjuntivo faz sentido, o uso correto não é intuitivo para um falante de inglês. O traslado, no qual é possível estudar alguns dos “trigger words” e analisar o uso do FdS, é especialmente útil. Também, a clareza e simplicidade da frase “…indicates a possible future action” (parafraseada) é a melhor parte da gravação. Depois de vê-la, tenho certeza que possa usar o FdS mais proficientemente.
Comment by dmonzingo — September 13, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Eu gosto das frases clássicas do Prof. Kelm – “Se você quiser, eu vou falar com João.”, e o frase de Confucius “Os/Aqueles que quiserem, vão falar com João.” Depois eu visualizo o conceito, com as palavras “se”, “quando”, “logo que”, etc – este forma é mais fácil. Se Deus quiser, eu vou usar futuro de subjuntivo em minhas conversações.
Comment by Daniel Kietzer — September 13, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
Podemos repassar umas frases “triggers” em clase? Entendo os que se explicaram no diálogo mas penso que têm mais dos quais não me lembro.
Comment by Amelia Crawford — September 13, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
E dificil no portuguese, porque nao existe no espanhol, e eu nao entendo os outros subjuntivos no espanhol, tambem.
Comment by Chris Morley — September 14, 2007 @ 7:03 am
O díficil não é conjugar os verbos para o futuro do subjuntivo; o difícil é saber quando usá-lo! Vou ter que estudar essa lista de “trigger words.” ^_^
Comment by Lisa Martinez — September 14, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
Não é dificíl o futuro do subjuntivo. É interessante porque não é comum no espanhol.
No se si seria util el futuro del subjuntivo en el español, pero si seria interessante tenerlo.
Comment by Abraham Zamora — April 21, 2008 @ 10:00 pm
Eu gostei muito das referências culturais feitas- acho que faz o registro mais interessante. Em geral, o registro faz aprender gramatica facil e interessante!
Comment by Claire Johnson — April 21, 2008 @ 10:50 pm
Abraham, Claire,
Boas observações, obrigado. Sabe, o futuro do subjuntivo existia em espanhol antes, mas quase não se usa mais. De vez em quando eu vejo o futuro do subjuntivo em versos da Biblia em espanhol.
Comment by orkelm — April 22, 2008 @ 7:28 am
Eles oferecem muitos maneiras importantes e simples para aprender o futuro subjuntivo.
Comment by Joe Gutierrez — April 22, 2008 @ 10:07 am
Esta lessão me ajudou muito. O futuro do subjuntivo é um pouco difícil para mim, mas acho que entendo um pouco melhor agora. Eu gostei que os instructors dizeram as frases mais importantes do futuro do subjuntivo, como “se puder,” “se tiver,” e “se quiser.” Assim posso saber quais frases são mais usados.
Comment by Maria P. — April 22, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Hahaha! Que legal, gostei deste dialogo. Sempre quando volto ao Brasil fico revoltada porque vc tem que pagar ate pela agua que vem naqueles copinhos tampados…
Comment by Liana Depew — September 10, 2008 @ 11:27 am
This is one of the areas of Portuguese grammar that always confuses me. I have learned that after “se,” you use the future subjunctive, but have come across several examples of the word “se,” being followed by the present tense. One example is a Chico Cesar song that says “se você olha pra mim, se me dá atenção, eu me derreto suave…” How do you know when it should be future subjunctive after “se” and when it should be present tense?
Comment by Erin Daley — September 11, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
Gosto muito do futuro do subjuntivo e quero usa-lo quando eu não devo (como ‘ficar’). Gosto do sonido do “r” ao fim das palavras, especialmente quando Michelle as fala! Ouça o sotaque do interior do São Paulo
Comment by Shannon Zamora — September 11, 2008 @ 5:18 pm
Tenho uma pergunta sobre a última línea, “Se Deus quiser a gente ainda vai adotar esse sistema no Brasil.” Entendo o futuro de subjuntivo mas não a frase, “ainda vai adotar,” porque me parece diferente da tradução no inglês e espanhol (tal vez podamos adoptar, maybe we can adopt).
Comment by Elena Bessire — September 11, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
Quando eu practicar meu português, eu vou falar melhor. Eu gosto de este tá falado muito.
Comment by Eduard Keller — September 11, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
entao eh incorreto dizer “quando eu me formo, vou pro Rio”?
eh errado dizer “emaís” ou deve ser “emailes” ou emails”?
Comment by Ebony Jackson — September 11, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
I tend to use the future subjunctive in any case when the verb follows a ’se.’ Although there are exceptions to this rule, I’m pretty sure the construction is used in this way more often than not.
Comment by Golden Dale Oehlke — September 11, 2008 @ 10:57 pm
Em a primeira oração a moça fala-eu me sinto meia gorda.
Meio é usado para significar sort of. Eu poderia usar- eu me sinto meia mal? i am feeling sort of sick?
Comment by Lorena — September 12, 2008 @ 12:05 am
UT-Austin/Spring ‘09/ Instructor: Joao Valentino Alfredo/ POR508
La lección del “Future Subjunctive” me pareció muy buena, pues como soy hispano-hablante nativa, no uso esa forma en español. El explicar el “Future Subjunctive” en el diálogo sobre el ‘refill’ de refresco fue muy comprensible. Mi única crítica es que el diálogo es demasiado rápido para los que estamos aprendiendo portugués por primera vez.
Comment by Bárbara — April 28, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
UT-Austin/Spring ‘09/ Instructor: Joao Valentino Alfredo/ POR508
Depois que eu ouvi o som, eu entendo futuro subjuntivo melhor. Eu gosto de informações sobre como conjugar o verbo. Acho que o livro não explica bem este topico.
Comment by Ilya — April 29, 2009 @ 9:06 am
Por508/Valentino
I was a little confused of the word quiser I thought it meant quisiera in Spanish but now I know it means quiere. Also the analogy of what Confucius would say helps alot.
Wildren A.
Comment by Wildren Andrade — April 29, 2009 @ 10:06 am
UT-AUSTIN/Spring ‘09/ Instructor: Joao Valentino Alfredo/ POR508
Depois que eu ouvi na lição, eu pareço entender futoro subjuntivo um pequeno melhor. É dificil de Entender porque eu nunca o uso em espanhol nem em inglês. No entanto, eu acredito esse tempo dado e pratico poderei melhorar em ele, especialmente com uma lição com nesta.
Comment by Alvaro — April 29, 2009 @ 11:25 am
UT-Austin/Spring ‘09/Instructor Joao Valentino Alfredo/POR508
Eu gosto de informações del futuro subjuntivo. Issa forma é muito dificil a aprender porque ingles não tem a forma subjuntiva e espanhol no tem a forma futuro subjuntiva.
Comment by Maya — April 29, 2009 @ 11:39 am
Eu acho que este lição é fácil de compreender. Eu gosto dos oradores que explicar em Inglês primeiro. Concordo com Ilya, o livro não explica nada. Eu gostaria que tivesse usado isso tudo semestre.
Comment by Katie — April 29, 2009 @ 11:42 am
This is a completely new concept to me, but the podcast was helpful in understanding when to use this tense and how to conjugate it. thanks!
Comment by Mary Slosar — July 1, 2009 @ 9:27 am
What a great concept! Thanks for explaining the rules behind it so well (as always). And how often do we have a language rule that applies 100% of time?
Comment by Marina Potoplyak — July 4, 2009 @ 4:37 pm
Marina,
concordo, que bom ter uma regra que se aplica 100%!
Comment by orkelm — July 6, 2009 @ 8:46 am
I had the same experience as Valentino. The future subjunctive sounded at first to me like Spanish’s quisiera, haria, tomaria. I understand now that it is not, but it i’ll probably take me a while to internalize it.
Comment by Carlos Barrera — July 12, 2009 @ 5:07 pm
In Spanish we use the word “Tranquilizate” instead of “Tranquilate”
Comment by Jhonmar Castillo — September 4, 2009 @ 2:52 am